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Suspensions Ideas.
#1
Post your ideas here.
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#2
I haven t seen any coatings on either struts or shocks s shafts as in the enduro/motocross moto gp fields, might be interesting on cars , trucks whatever.

It s easier &it gives a plusher more controled ride. Might be good for the development of the Elite & KBO Project.
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#3
These are used in Motocross/Enduro , wonder if these are used in the automotive & racing market as well, unless I haven t seen it;Might be adapted to ths struts/shocks somehow.

http://www.skf.com/twowheeler/products/f...index.html
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#4
Might be related to the above post, shaft s , Heat Treatment ( might have been done already)
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#5
Thanks for the links and ideas. I've experienced the benefits of various treatments / coatings when I had a turbo Miata. The engine builder (Replika Mashinen) applied a thermal barrier coating to the exhaust manifold and turbine housing.

On the damper side, the shafts on Bilsteins are a high-quality chromed treatment and micro-polished. It's one reason I really like Bilstein because I had a few chromed shafts investigated at a local company that does metallurgical analysis. They reported that the steel Bilstein used on the shafts was an unknown composition to them, not something off the shelf. The chrome layer was also fairly thick, more than some other aftermarket brands. These features are reasons whys Bilsteins tend to be so durable over many thousands of miles.

I know a company in Socal that does cryo treatments on pistons and rods for engines, etc. I considered that for the Bilstein shock bodies but didn't feel the additional reduction in friction would be more noticeable than using a lower gas pressure which is what I've been doing since ~2014 and especially with integration of the Ripple Reducer feature which is a 'friction-reducing' modification actually.

It's definitely important to keep friction to a minimum as well as encourage heat dissipation so modern heat treatments and material design as always helping to advance damper technology.

That NBR elastomer indicated in your link for motorcycle forks stands for 'nitrile rubber' or Buna-N. Bilstein already uses Buna-N (nitrile) o-rings for the rod guides (static application) while the separator piston uses a Viton o-ring (dynamic application). When I rebuild a used damper, I use Buna-N o-rings for the rod guide and Viton for the separator. So it appears that Bilstein is already using the best quality sealing components available and to lead the industry in their chroming / metallurgy processes.

EDIT: found a cool link here - https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/5-Top...urbo-Parts

and a neat video of with and without ceramic thermal barrier coating:



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#6
Appreciate the considerations here Shaikh, will try to find what s the coatings I have in mind here on what s used on these Enduro/Motocross forks & rear shock, they had improvments on them, much plusher so to speak, Kashima comes to mind real quick.

Will come back to you later when I ll find it or them.

Edit: It s the added combined features of these that will make a difference that I think.

Edit 2 : Would be interesting to see how hot the shock oil & strut/shock are.

Your mods are doing wonders as it has been tested by several people with your mods which is pretty great.
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#7
Thanks for the research, Py. I'm not looking to make changes to coating / heat treatments as the biggest benefits come from reducing damper friction internally, adding high-frequency softening behavior, and blow-off characteristics.

I've made careful measurements when developing the Ripple Reducer and can see how gas pressure has an overwhelming effect on 'friction.' Anything else is really not relevant to what we're doing, whether street or racing. I believe for Baja / trophy truck and similar applications the seals are the same as used in standard Bilstein dampers so you would use similar means to soften opening force and high-frequency response.

Spend some time learning about the 'flutter valve' and 'free bypass hole' that the off-road guys use! This is where the secret sauce is - because without lower nitrogen / gas pressure your fancy seals won't matter! I know from experience ...

http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm
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#8
Glad to see Bilstein & yourself use something similar here, we can see the parallels .

Viton s also used as valve seals as well as other applications.
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#9
(10-04-2018, 02:56 PM)Shaikh Jalal Wrote: Thanks for the research, Py. I'm not looking to make changes to coating / heat treatments as the biggest benefits come from reducing damper friction internally, adding high-frequency softening behavior, and blow-off characteristics.

I've made careful measurements when developing the Ripple Reducer and can see how gas pressure has an overwhelming effect on 'friction.' Anything else is really not relevant to what we're doing, whether street or racing. I believe for Baja / trophy truck and similar applications the seals are the same as used in standard Bilstein dampers so you would use similar means to soften opening force and high-frequency response.

Spend some time learning about the 'flutter valve' and 'free bypass hole' that the off-road guys use! This is where the secret sauce is - because without lower nitrogen / gas pressure your fancy seals won't matter! I know from experience ...

http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm

Thx for the comeback here Shaikh, will read the link given above. Always fun learning about this.

Might be usefull one day never know right !

It s funny to see it s interelated somehow concerning forks/ shocks from different racing feilds.
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