[Maks]: I feel the rear running, essentially, moving very fast but it's not the same as mine, where on mine, it feels like it's almost fighting each other. [Maks]: And it almost feels like the sway bar is trying to fight it. [Maks]: Whereas on this... [Maks]: It just feels like it's moving to stay in contact with the road. [Jalal]: Yeah. It's interesting you say that. You are very observant, Max. [Maks]: I spent two years being so annoyed with this. [Maks]: I tried to explain to everyone, and they're just like, I don't see it. [Maks]: And I'm like, I could literally feel every single bump. [Maks]: And when in bucket seats, you definitely feel it in your ass. [Jalal]: Which is why a good, a well-tuned, ride-harmonized setup, it makes... [Jalal]: a racing oriented car less annoying because you know bucket seats - okay, good - control, but less less insulation so you don't want to put like you said and then you have all the bracing i mean at some point stiffer is not better stiffer just becomes annoying and irritating and frustrating [Maks]: And it also makes you, at least for me, so my left mirror, I've retightened it on the internals and everything, every single screw, and I can see that it's getting looser. [Maks]: Just from all this shaking. [Maks]: And so when I had my compression rebound higher, I could see it violently shake, [Maks]: whereas I turn it down, and it took away a lot of the stress on the car. [Maks]: Like literally the stress on the car was going away. [Jalal]: And a lot of, when you turn the damping down? [Maks]: Yeah. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: I mean, and this is something that... And that's why everyone's like, you just got to do it stiffer. [Maks]: You got to make this, that. [Maks]: And I'm like, my window is shaking. [Maks]: It's not normal. [Jalal]: Right. [Jalal]: And I'm not making this up. [Jalal]: I'm not imagining this. [Jalal]: When do you want to meet up with some of your friends who are skeptics so they can come for a ride and feel this? [Jalal]: I mean, I'll let you drive. [Jalal]: I mean, if you want to take someone for a drive, I'd be fine to have you or I can take some people. [Jalal]: But like you said, there's no better proof than actually feeling it yourself. [Maks]: I think, if anything, the person who would be the most interested to push in this harder would be Jacob. [Jalal]: Uh-huh. [Maks]: But he pushes things very hard. [Jalal]: Well, I won't let him drive the car unless he's ready to write me a check. [Jalal]: But, in fact, I would rather somebody not go crazy. [Jalal]: But you don't even have to push it hard. [Jalal]: He can come sit with me if he wants. [Maks]: But even this, like pushing it. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: While it's pushing, I could feel, I felt the lift bounce just slightly. [Jalal]: Uh-huh. [Maks]: But it stayed smooth. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Jalal]: I mean, she wants you to push her, and she forgives you, you know? [Maks]: Well, even like that bump right there, it went up, landed smoothly, and flowed with it. [Maks]: Versus if you make the compression too low, it'll bounce. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Jalal]: and if you make the rebound too high it's well if you make the rebound too low it's going to bounce and if you make it too high it's going to kick up too like you said you have to find that right balance and something that i've spent a lot of time doing is and this is why i i keep the dyno information to myself these days because i educate people so that you understand that i know what's going on and then because i have proprietary i've put years into what i'm doing that you can feel the proof of what i'm creating [Jalal]: And I know how to characterize what the suspension is doing. [Jalal]: Spring rates, the frequencies, the damping, you know, the front roll couple, all of that. [Jalal]: So if you say, okay, I would like it a little bit stiffer or a little bit softer, then I know how to do that. [Jalal]: What I did with Ian was Ian said he wanted more control. [Jalal]: That was what his comment was. [Jalal]: And so I actually used a little bit more rebound on his setup. [Jalal]: I mean, a little bit more than a little bit. [Jalal]: And I actually think now he might wish that he had softer rebound. [Jalal]: Because of the higher... [Jalal]: Well, because of the higher gas force that the Ohlins had, the rebound actually helped the car to not bounce as much. [Jalal]: But with the lower gas force that the Bilsteins and the H&Rs can have, with what I do, you don't need as much rebound. [Jalal]: You don't need to keep the car pulled down as much because it's not trying to bounce with the gas force. [Maks]: It settles on its own. [Jalal]: It settles on its own better. [Jalal]: So what this car has, this car is truly rally tuned. [Jalal]: She is really a rally suspension setup, fully front and rear across the whole range of velocities. [Jalal]: I can take her on a back road and she does exactly what you're feeling here. [Maks]: That's the thing is on that turn, when you're hitting those imperfections, there's no... [Maks]: It doesn't get unsettled. [Maks]: And you have super stiff springs with a super stiff bar. [Maks]: So in a normal E46, it would yank it. [Maks]: It would yank the steering out of your hands into the direction. [Jalal]: And you know, you've driven a bunch. [Maks]: I know, because even on the medium setting on my Hotchkiss, it would do it. [Jalal]: Okay. [Maks]: I mean, with softer springs and everything, it will do it. [Maks]: We could go off in my car and we could test that. [Jalal]: Sure. [Jalal]: I mean, my neck is a little tweaked, but a short drive. [Maks]: It won't be too bad. [Maks]: It's definitely a lot better than most cars. [Jalal]: Good. OK. [Maks]: But it's that small imperfection that no one else notices. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Jalal]: And when you spend a lot of time and you're working on making it better, then that's really important. [Jalal]: Good deal. [Jalal]: So, what do you think when you want to become a Fat Cat customer? [Jalal]: I guess in a way, you kind of took some of the ideas and you already used them, which is great, you know? [Maks]: I think I'm going to need to get a job first. [Jalal]: Okay. [Jalal]: All right. [Jalal]: Well, if anything, I think the information that we're sharing, I love how it all came together literally today, right? [Jalal]: Like you, well, last night I think you texted me or you messaged on the forum. [Jalal]: But was it today that you posted? [Maks]: I think it was today. [Jalal]: It was today, right? [Jalal]: Yeah, because I saw your message and I just responded and I'm like, okay, let's, we chatted. [Jalal]: and now we're meeting up, so I love it. [Jalal]: Awesome. [Maks]: Honestly, it's super impressive. [Maks]: Because I did not know how to expect for [Maks]: a no-adjustment shock to feel. [Jalal]: Right? [Jalal]: It takes some getting used to the idea. [Maks]: Well, it gets... [Maks]: It's hard to think that, oh, if I don't like this, I could change it, because there's nothing to change. [Maks]: Like, there's nothing to complain about, whereas, like, normally in a coilover you get in, you're like, oh, it's a little this, it's a little that, let's change this, let's change that. [Maks]: And you never find yourself happy because on, like, a one-way, most of them... [Maks]: It adjusts the rebound, but it also takes the compression with it. [Maks]: But then if you have a two-way, it's not supposed to do that, but you never know. [Jalal]: Usually it doesn't. [Jalal]: The MCS doesn't. [Maks]: It's actually really good, yeah, about that. [Jalal]: But then because of the way that it's tuned, the low speed, the high speed, something isn't necessarily going to be optimized. [Jalal]: And that's why when I say... [Maks]: Something just seems off. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: Like strangely... [Maks]: like you would expect that if you turn the compression, the rebound, everything down you would expect that it would absorb the shocks [Maks]: and it would just flow with it but it still is trying to be a track coil. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: It's still trying to give it that 'i'm still like stiff' [Jalal]: Yeah [Maks]: Whereas in reality you've already turned everything down and you want it to just flow [Jalal]: And flowing in that way doesn't mean that it's not fast. [Jalal]: I mean, I think you can feel like, if this setup was on your own car, you can turn her off if you want. [Maks]: If anything, I'm more confused how this 330 is so fast! [Jalal]: It's more than I mean the rear end the guy that I got it from he did put a Dinan tune and there's a throttle body dyne a throttle body [Maks]: Probably does fifth gear instead of six [Jalal]: Yeah, and there's I mean, there's the only, there's the fifth and also the rear end I've got the WaveTrac with a four point I want to say 4.1, but I think it's higher whatever the Spec 46 gear is. [Maks]: But even still, with higher gearing... [Jalal]: Mm-hmm [Jalal]: It accelerates faster. [Maks]: That one (the M3) has 3.6. [Jalal]: Oh, that's right. [Jalal]: So yours is 3.6. [Maks]: You could get 4.10. [Maks]: Like, Jacob has 4.10 in his M3. [Jalal]: Mine's, I think, 3.3. [Jalal]: Because the stock on mine was 2.93, and I think now it's a 3.13 or something. [Jalal]: I think it's a 3.3, I think. [Maks]: So, like, even entering a turn with all that extra power, it does not... [Maks]: There is zero bumps in any corner. [Maks]: It's just smooth. [Maks]: You could give gas, let go of gas, brake, and the car stays as if you're going straight. [Maks]: It's very confusing. [Jalal]: Well, because this is a rally setup. [Jalal]: And that's when you saw the picture that I showed you, the Obioban that Ian had. [Maks]: Yeah, that was also crazy because I've read about his Ohlins. [Jalal]: Uh-huh. [Maks]: And... [Maks]: Like I assumed instantly that maybe the sway bar or maybe the bump stop was the reason. [Maks]: But I'm pretty sure he had bump stops on his old as well. [Jalal]: Oh, he did. [Jalal]: They do. [Maks]: He set everything up pretty much the same. [Jalal]: Yes. [Maks]: So even in the spring rates, he had like I think 25 or 50 pound differences left to right for a driver and everything. [Jalal]: Left to right. Exactly. [Maks]: So it was like a very dialed set of ... Ohlins DFVs. [Maks]: So just seeing that photo is insane. [Maks]: Because normally you would expect that the difference would be the car just tilting to the side. [Maks]: You wouldn't expect that it would be yanking to the ground. [Jalal]: Exactly and that's why i mean and i don't know where his friend i'm guessing his friend probably turned the dampers up [Maks]: Most people do. [Jalal]: Because a lot of people think that you need it - but look, this car this car [Jalal]: I have no need to change the knob i go to the track and i am just flying around the turns. [Jalal]: If you've seen any of my videos and that was actually on a different setup, this car is faster now than I had in the videos but the same I use the same tuning philosophy but I that was before I did the full rally tuning that I have now. [Maks]: Well that's the thing is this is kind of - the suspension feels like you wouldn't change it [Jalal]: Mm-hmm [Maks]: because when you're hitting bumps it's still it's like fully controlled [Jalal]: Mm-hmm [Maks]: It's definitely soft enough. [Maks]: I mean, obviously the springs are extremely stiff, but it's soft enough to drive around. [Maks]: You would only need to really adjust the sway bars as per preference. [Jalal]: And tire pressures. [Maks]: Yeah, tire pressure makes a big difference on track. [Jalal]: Exactly. [Jalal]: I mean, you start with, you know. [Maks]: And your tires, which brand and all that. [Maks]: I mean, that's really, when you're on the track, I feel like that's what you, the small differences there is what you want to worry about. [Maks]: You don't want to have to worry about all that. [Maks]: Plus your suspension settings. [Maks]: It's like if you went to track and you're like, okay, which tune is better today? [Maks]: Like you would not want to do that. [Jalal]: You'd need to have a lot of data to make a proper decision. [Jalal]: And most people just use the seat of their pants or maybe they use a lap time. [Jalal]: But that's not enough data to change things on the car without thinking them through. [Jalal]: And that's why, because I myself had single and double adjustables and then I worked with people who wanted them and then I've done data acquisition and it you really become you get into like this feedback loop of tweak tweak tweak knob knob you know compression rebound and then you're changing tire pressures and then you think about sway bars the whole thing is like making the car fluid, flow, controlled... [Maks]: Yeah [Jalal]: You've driven it now i i everyone watching the video i mean you, you look like [Maks]: It's just insanely smooth, like it does ... [Jalal]: Yeah, thank you. [Maks]: Like it is, it's not like... [Jalal]: Smooth and controlled. [Jalal]: You can pull the steering wheel and it responds. [Maks]: There's really no way to describe it except like... Because there's no amazing epiphany or anything. [Maks]: It's just like if you went and got your car as nice as you could, then you went on the freeway or you went to the grocery store and you're like, this sucks, this is annoying, I hate this part, I hate this part. [Maks]: That just doesn't exist. [Maks]: And that's really the main difference. [Maks]: You can't describe it as this like amazing suspension because all it really is is, it's just working right. [Jalal]: Well, it is amazing that it works right. [Maks]: To me, it's amazing that it works right! [Maks]: But you you you don't know what to expect and the expectation is that all the bad things that you're used to are not there [Jalal]: Yes. [Maks]: And that's really where that's I guess that's the amazing part about it, right? [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: I think the craziest part is just taking that turn - like it... On any car, you normally take a turn either you engage into it or at some point you hit a bump, you feel it. [Maks]: On this car, like I felt it on that front left wheel for like a split second, but I didn't feel it as a jerk. [Maks]: I didn't feel it as a bump. I felt it move, but that was it. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: Whereas in my car, I know if... Because on your Ground Control sway bar... your softest (setting) is like my medium. [Jalal]: Yeah. [Maks]: And..on my medium or my stiff if I hit that, any bump on a turn, I would feel it in my wheel like not in the sense that I would feel it like 'oh that was uncomfortable' I would feel it like this yeah it would kick the steering yeah because it does yank and it turns I mean it makes sense [Jalal]: And that's really because the damper gas force that's the first thing and then the damper low speed because you're in a turn where, okay you're gonna get some motion, but that's exactly why that gas force when it shows up it's - you can't dial it out. [Jalal]: And also that strong - like you saw - the strong low speed jerk, that compression - is when you're going into something the compression is affecting how well the tire can comply and then you said the steering is telling you 'is the suspension absorbing or not absorbing the road? [Maks]: I'll say the worst part about all of it is too that once you have everything as best as you could and you're you're still complaining about [Maks]: the small low speed problems and then like we'll go on my car and you'll see like on the freeway it's great [Maks]: but still not as good as this and that's kind of where it's crazy because it should be! [Maks]: For what they charge and for what they market and everything, right? [Maks]: And so in the end you start thinking 'okay well maybe I need the three ways, maybe I need the four ways' but then you're you're just going down this rabbit hole and if the entire problem is the gas pressure then ... then you've gone down a rabbit hole for no reason. [Jalal]: That's right - the only reason is to give them more money and to make you think that the problem is YOU not being able to adjust the shock properly... [Maks]: 'at low speed,' quote unquote. [Jalal]: at low speed or whatever - exactly - so this is where the blame shifting instead of somebody saying 'look, big shafts give you a lot of control but they give you also this gas force' and if you were honest you'd say 'if you want to do this this way, you can - you're going to get really good control but it's going to have this just a little bit of this choppiness' [Maks]: That gas force is required for the bigger shafts, huh? [Jalal]: Well, it's - it's that when you have a larger shaft the same pressure inside the bottom of the shock - [Jalal]: if you have an 11 millimeter shaft or 14 or 18 or 20 - the same pressure [Maks]: It requires more to move it ... [Jalal]: Well, it - because the the rod is now feeling a higher force because a larger diameter you get more force - the same pressure: pressure constant - but if you increase the area the force goes up proportionately. [Jalal]: And so it's just like when you have hydraulics on a on a lift that's why they have these big ass pistons on, cylinders, you know, they don't need to have a thousand PSI. [Jalal]: They can move something with a hundred PSI, probably 200 PSI because it's a big cylinder. [Jalal]: Same idea with the dampers. It's not a benefit. [Maks]: Can you imagine a lift having a thousand PSI? [Jalal]: Oh my God. [Maks]: The car would shoot. [Jalal]: Probably. [Jalal]: I mean, it's like a cannon, you know. [Maks]: Well, that's exactly how it would work, right? [Maks]: So if you had all, like if your, if your lift was over pressured. [Jalal]: Mm-hmm.